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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 14:50:13 GMT -5
hello and thanks everyone for a great game (aftermath) as i have stated some people have sent some false letters to my insurance co that relate from a 100% personal nature. all they want to do is try to make problems and try and get the field closed..... here is only one of the letters, and as you can see the truth is a hard thing for some people. > My name is Hugh Whitted, and I am the claimant on a claim against Kookaburra Airsoft Field in Temple Texas, owner Dave Demorrow. The incident in question occurred on Saturday January 23rd at ~12:30pm, during an event Dave was holding. I had a tooth shot out by an incoming airsoft BB. The gun was chronographed, and found to be shooting within legal limits, and the player was found to be within the rules. > > After this point however I started to notice a great many discrepancies between your policies and the field's practices. They are greatly concerning, as they led to unsafe situations, my own injury, at least 1 other known player injury, and the potential for further injury. > > Listed in order of the Rules printed from http://www.airsoftinsurance.com: > > 1. Field Operation: There were no established check in areas or procedures before play was commenced. > 2. Personnel: All personnel on the day of the event were either parents of players or adult volunteers. None of them had been trained in depth. > 4. Field Orientation: No introduction to field layout was given. > 5. Barrel blocking devices were not required or engaged. > 6. Players were told that the use of full face protection was optional for anyone over 18 at this local. Goggle on/off signage was not present at all. > 8. Chronograph procedures were lacking and allowed weapons that had not been properly chronographed onto the field. > 9. Maximum Velocities: Sniper weapons were allowed onto the field whose ability to fire full auto had not been disengaged. > 10. Field Maintenance: Field boundaries are not marked in any way or fashion and were crossed on at least 2 occasions during the event, resulting in the firing upon of a civilian person, who was not in any type of protective gear. > 11. Players were not presented with a written copy of the rules prior to signing the waiver. Safety briefing was severely lacking and glossed over several of these regulations. > 12. No signs of any kind: those delineating playing area, gogggle on/off areas or boundaries, were posted. > > In light of these violations, I feel that this field is a severely unsafe place to play, and had these regulations been strictly enforced, my own injury would not have happened. > > Please contact me at 512-556-XXXX to discuss further. > > Regards, > Hugh Whitted > > > > -- > Hugh Whitted > Jack of all Trades by the way in this attack letter he listed the wrong insurance policy. i had the policy from last year and he is quoting the upcoming insurance changes that had not yet taken place. but lets go over some of his "facts" shall we? > 1. Field Operation: There were no established check in areas or procedures before play was commenced. front table with cash register and at the time run by my wife in full view with a sign that said (CHECK IN) on it.... > 2. Personnel: All personnel on the day of the event were either parents of players or adult volunteers. None of them had been trained in depth. all OCs (9 in total) had to have at least 4 play/reffs days under them prior to reffing, they all had to have had at least 2 games reffing with me as back up. all had to pass a verbal test, all had to be over 21 years old and a degree of professionalism about them. and all the field reffs were prior military that day except for my wife. yes one was a parent, did that disqualify him?  > 4. Field Orientation: No introduction to field layout was given. there are photos of the field posted on line, on the wall of the shop. at the snack tables, a diagram posted on a 20 foot container and in the player packs. > 5. Barrel blocking devices were not required or engaged. not required until the end of April 2012. it is coming but at the time not required by my policy. > 6. Players were told that the use of full face protection was optional for anyone over 18 at this local. Goggle on/off signage was not present at all. full face not required until the end of April 2012. it is coming but at the time not required by my policy. i have a big sign you HAVE to pass on the way to the field that says GOGGLE ON LINE just after the staging area (again marked staging area) > 8. Chronograph procedures were lacking and allowed weapons that had not been properly chronographed onto the field. the only gun that was found to be "snuck " on the field was by a member of YOUR team. that person is now banned from the field for breaking the rules. > 9. Maximum Velocities: Sniper weapons were allowed onto the field whose ability to fire full auto had not been disengaged. no requirement for that from my insurance co, and all DMRs have to be cleared via the field owner, the person that hat that gun had just prior completed a required snipers course at the field. and i had questioned him about the use and rules for a DMR. he was watched closely by my admins and had no issues all day. gun was shooting @420 with a min engagement rule of 100 ft with a full DMR kit. > 10. Field Maintenance: Field boundaries are not marked in any way or fashion and were crossed on at least 2 occasions during the event, resulting in the firing upon of a civilian person, who was not in any type of protective gear. the field is marked by a 4-5 strand barbed wire fence 99% of the way with the only break being a enter and exit gate. all other areas are fenced. the people you are talking about crossed a marked fence were still on the property (the field continues for about 30 feet and were caught by a admin and brought back into play with out any issues prior to leaving the property. the person that fired at a neighbor and missed (Jeff shore) was relieved of all duty's and as soon as this was learned was permanently banned from the property and assault charges may be pending against him (its up to the party he fired at.) > 11. Players were not presented with a written copy of the rules prior to signing the waiver. Safety briefing was severely lacking and glossed over several of these regulations. rules are posted on line, hung on the walls of the building in 2 places, in the packet near the waivers to view, read to everyone at the start of the day and all OCs have a copy to reference at all times. > 12. No signs of any kind: those delineating playing area, goggle on/off areas or boundaries, were posted. again signs posted, you HAD to walk past the signs to get on the field. i dint know what to say to that, also the entire field is fenced you have to really work at leaving the field. > who was the other injured player? ? tooth was shot out? he left the field with the tooth still intact in his mouth!!!!!!! well i have been nice for 3 years getting called everything in the book from money grubbing to insane and crazy and all sorts of things in between. i have never sunk to there level and never will. if you as a member of the comunity want to help set the record straight and let the insurance company know about the safety of the field feel free to contact them and let them know about it. be truth full, and respect full please. here is the contact info for them www.paintball-apl.com/please send a copy of anything you send to them to me also at alleramilitaria@aol.com thanks again second i need a lawyer who would be willing to represent the field as i am going to defend the field and the community legally and take action against the main actors who are causing the listed problems again your actions may help the hobby grow and prosper or not. thanks everyone Dave |
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Post by Diamondback on Apr 22, 2012 14:58:22 GMT -5
he brought the tooth thing on himself, why is he complaining if HE chose to not wear lower face protection
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 15:04:46 GMT -5
no personnel attacks, just positive please (and yes i agree with you). and not only did he chose not too, he refused free lower face gear.
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Post by Diamondback on Apr 22, 2012 15:11:25 GMT -5
Edited
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Post by caliban on Apr 22, 2012 15:30:26 GMT -5
Remind us what OP this was again. Cause Jan 23 of this year was not even a Saturday.
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 15:31:07 GMT -5
the followup email where he threatons to sue me...
and he did file a clame i have the clame number from the insurance co. if anyone wants it.
> Dave -
> I suggest you get your facts straight and stop writing slanderous remarks about people. Included is the entirety of the conversation I had with your insurance company. I sent them a list of concerns over safety violations, and requested that they send me a claim form. I never called for your field to be shut down. After receiving their reply and claim form, I had already been treated for my injury, and due to the resulting low cost of treatment, never filed a claim. If the insurance company chose to assign a claim number to the original list of concerns I sent them, that is fine, but I do not currently have any claim made against your field.
> I had completely let the issue drop (and to aggreed to disagree as discussed per our phone conversation) until you chose to inflame it yesterday with your comments.
>
> If your slanderous remarks do not cease, I will be in contact with my lawyer, as you can and will be held liable for your comments and any resulting defamation of character.
>
> Regards -
>
> Hugh Whitted
> AKA Hilt
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 15:32:37 GMT -5
this was REFORGER, i know he cant even get the date right. but thats the smallest problem with the truth here
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Post by caliban on Apr 22, 2012 15:35:49 GMT -5
Roger, I'll be writing!
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Post by Tyrus (T-virus) on Apr 22, 2012 15:38:07 GMT -5
Oh, I remember that guy from REFORGER, you should invite your insurance guys out sometime and let them see what rules you have in play and how obvious the things that guy talked about were or you should take pictures of everything and send them to your insurance, then they would see them?
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Post by Diamondback on Apr 22, 2012 15:45:11 GMT -5
And a tooth knocked out is not really classified as a "injury" in my book I had two teeth knocked out and lots of chipped ones (all nothing to do with airsoft but a stupid childhood ;D ) but they can be easily fixed not counting the bill but that's another story
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 15:50:01 GMT -5
they came out and looked at the field...
the guy was impressed, and when i get the results back i will post them... but that takes 6-12 weeks, in the mean time they have letters, like the one posted stating the field is unsafe... and nothing but my word to prove they are not telling the truth.
and i am the defendent so my word by itself is not something they can use.
so right now they have letters like the one posted against me....
and nothing to defend the field they can use right now. sooooo
please if you want correct that in a dignified respectfull manner, and forward that to me also.
after being "hurt" and the tooth being "shot out" he continued to play for another 1-2 hrs.
thanks
dave
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Post by madivan on Apr 22, 2012 16:40:54 GMT -5
I'll jump into this for only an academic observation on how to make the game safer as a whole. Please keep in mind, I was not there. But, I have a strong working knowledge of safety at events like this. I'm going to shoot holes in this only to look critically at this issue, not to take sides or 'start crap'. If you don't like my opinion, well, it's just an opinion.
I need to point out three real problems in Mr. Whitted's end of the argument. First, he said right off the bat that the guns where within the posted chrono speeds. Second, the long list of issues he laid out are not discreetly connected to the core issue of his injury. Most (all but one) of what he listed would not have changed how he got hurt. third, I did not read anything about the fields action. reaction or comments when he reported this issue to the staff. I get the feeling that there is more to the background on this story... I may be wrong.
Granted, when you have a tooth shot out, it's not easy to keep cool and address the issue if you are not sure what you need to do. I'd understand (not agree with) why he would just leave and not report it.
So, Note to the players who read this: If you get hurt at a game (G..D forbid), the first thing you do after securing/stabilizing the injury is inform a game/field official. Give the field the chance to help you and give them a chance to make a report of the issue. If you do, 99% of the time their insurance will simply step in and handle what they can. Then we don't have post like this fogging the game and you are not screwed. As a game promoter/field owner, I can tell you that I'm not effected at all if I have an injury claim sent to my insurance company as long as it's not gross negligence or repeated claims. One in a great while is WHY WE HAVE INSURANCE. No need for drama or hostility.
Now on to the fields side of this issue:
(I'll comment in order)
Issue 1 - Agreed, how did this guy know what the legal speeds where, get game info or get his game pass?
Issue 2 - Anyone who plays and has 20 min. instruction can be a great basic referee. If you have 8 filler new guys and one good experienced ref then you have a workable safe ref staff. Granted I like to do better and it sounds like the field had this well in hand even if you only take Mr. Whitted's word for it.
Issue 4[sic] - Field layout on any field is an obvious issue. Maps posted and marking on the field need to be observed by the players. I know it is easy for the field to take it for granted as well that the players know where to go.
Issue 5 - I come from the paintball world and I have one of the people yelling about this for a while. This is not something that changes over night... I'm glad that it will be a dead issue soon.
Issue 6 - Ditto to issue 5
issue 8[sic] - Chrono issues are are both the field and the players responsibility. There is nothing any field can do if a players sneaks a hot gun onto the field... The issue will not be resolved until someone catches it, and by that time it is due to someone being hit to hard. So everyone needs to pitch in on that one. From the field side, you have to be on the ball hard core.
Issue 9 - 100ft engagement is simple. regardless of rate of fire, the energy of a 400 fps BB at 100ft is slower than 300fps.
Issue 10 - can't speak to this directly due to not being at this event. But, generally speaking, even if there is no tapeline, missions and objectives should keep you in the AO. If you are wondering off, you are not paying attention to the game instructions.
Issue 11 - no game presents a full list of game rules prior to any game. those are on line for a reason. If you did present everyone with a copy of the rules, you would need to publish a small book. I have yet to see that small book for airsoft. Granted, I wrote one for paintball. ( paintball-book.com )
Issue 12 - Signs are a big issue with me. Again, was not at the game, but, I''m fully aware how signs can blow down or get damaged. Fields are always fighting this issue and it sneaks up on you. I suspect that there may have been a missing sign or one on the ground that left this impression... you know, notice one and if you are already mad it become "all the sings".
In the end I see this whole thing as an exercise in "how not to handle getting hurt on a field".
As for Dave's last statement: I learned long ago that because I'm the guy who took the time and risk to put a game together, if someone gets mad at someone else, they will blame me. Personally you have to have skin a foot thick to run events. I've had a running joke fore years "Person A insults person B? See Ivan, it's his fault"... LOL I just ask that the players keep it in mind that these games are not a gold mine. In most cases they make me less than minimum wage for my efforts and I'm sure Dave is in the same boat. We are always one rain cloud away from loosing money on a game.
Good luck on this Dave. I'm sorry to hear this has gone to the point of needing lawyers when the insurance people could have handled this without a problem.
Sorry about your tooth Hugh, I know getting hurt like that at a game can be a real pisser. I'm quite sure I know how you feel about all of this...
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Post by 88B88888B88B888 on Apr 22, 2012 16:48:14 GMT -5
This happened with the Multicam guys and the russian side. Down near the far right corner facing towards the field. He was over 40ft away, with a non DMR gun. All PLAY around that area CEASED and an admin was called in Dave Personally came up. The two players that were involved talked with OC and gun was cleared of "being hot". BOTH players CONTINUED to play with no further issues. If the issue was dropped then why was a claim made? With all the complaints posted in the original claim, the biggest one the face protection. Said person should have been old enough to decide to wear full face protection or not, granted that you are 18+. That is nothing new to the field.
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Post by 88B88888B88B888 on Apr 22, 2012 16:51:46 GMT -5
Also just noting that remarks can be viewed as Freedom of Expression and Freedom of Speech.
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Post by madivan on Apr 22, 2012 17:06:02 GMT -5
Also just noting that remarks can be viewed as Freedom of Expression and Freedom of Speech. well, not really. If the comments are false or intentionally misleading and damage can be proven, then you have slander. What i see all the time is people saying they will sue for 'defamation of character'. But unless you can show how it cost you money or somehow caused real damage (divorce, lost job, kicked out of school...) you are just going to have to just live with the insult. Nothing you can do... if it's a lie or not. Granted, I've had to sue on those grounds and won. |
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Post by parkerd13 (Shadow) on Apr 22, 2012 17:31:26 GMT -5
To the issue with the out of bounds at the field not being marked-I was at Reforger and I specifically remember at the safety briefing Dave saying, "Smooth wire can be crossed, but barbed wire is out of bound because it is not my property. Do not cross barbed wire for any reason."
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 18:12:57 GMT -5
posted on another web site... operation fight back is all about standing up and fighting the untruths out there. only thing that has changed is that we tweaked the crono pro just a little, and that was on the way and in no way affected by the letter. everything else is the same and was inspected by the insurance inspector last month with no issues noted. and anyone can look at the site and see just what is posted. the proof in that is i just got a call from Mr witted demanding that i remove his phone number from the email he sent me and the insurance co. so he is reading this. but his number is public for anyone to look it up on the computer. one thing that can never bee said about me is that i never change. the field is changing every week to make it safer and better for the player. someone saying that i will never change something is just being silly. thanks for the comments hobbit, or Lilly. p.s. ever notice that i refer to Mr witted as Mr witted or to his girlfriend as Lilly or hobbit (names they picked out), but they call me names like crazy Dave or other not so nice names??? Attachments:
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Post by Redkangavoosa on Apr 22, 2012 18:15:03 GMT -5
Anyone have any videos from Reforger showing the briefing/admin area?
It would really help to strengthen defenses.
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 22:02:53 GMT -5
the guy has made stuff up about the field / community / and myself. called me all sorts of names and badmouthed me of forums i cant respond too. i am letting his words speak for him... remember the letter he and his friends have sent to my insurance co, and the letter to another forum just now posted... they don't match.... simple thing is if you file a false clam agents a company it is labial and after it costs money someone has to pay for that. due to hilts and his friends letters my insurance co has had to spend thousands of dollars to check out what he has accused me of... someone has to pay for that. now HE wants it to be all behind us after the damage is done and thousands of dollars has been spent. well that's called fraud in Texas. and yes i am getting a lawyer on this ASAP. and thanks guys for the many phone calls and offers of help today. i will be using that help soon, hey gates ville Conservative. please give me a call tomorrow. thanks Attachments:
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Post by trenchraider2 on Apr 22, 2012 22:39:31 GMT -5
Wow....just....wow.
I'm amazed. Just when I thought I might have seen it all, this pops up.
Dave, you are still in complete denial that you share at least some culpability in this whole mess. (something I thought was over months ago...and by all rights should have been.) Not even addressing the safety issues and at best medicodre management of the Reforger Op (I was there....I saw the issues too), this all really began when the criticism started to come in and you reacted badly to it. Yes, some of the criticism was harsh, but most of it was something you could have taken to heart and improved your operations in the future. A professional would have taken both the negative feedback with the good, thanked everyone for their opinions, and looked to moving forward using both good and bad experiences to make future events better, safer experiences for everyone.
But you didn't do that. You took it personal and went into knee-jerk defensive mode. You lashed out at anyone who said anything that was not completely positive. You attacked those who were critical of the event, you called them names, belittled them (and indeed libeled them), went on other forums and made jokes in poor taste about injuries, and then to cap it all off, banned everyone remotely associated with the incident (or who spoke out in favor of those who were) from your forum and site in a sort of Soviet style purge in miniature.
It would all be funny, if it were not so pathetic.....as well as possibly harmful and devisive to the hobby as a whole.
I'm in close touch with the gentleman who authored the letter you post here, so I can say with 100% certainty that had you reacted in a much more professional (and indeed rational and mature) manner, this all would have ended within a few days of the Reforger OP and we all could have moved on. Instead you reacted like you did back in January and the effects you are now feeling (yes, I'm aware of what they are) that caused you to pull this latest stunt are largely your own doing. You caused this to escalate by your own poor judgement and tedency to act before thinking the consequences of your actions through. I've said it before and I'll say it again now: you are your own worst enemy.
This most recent stunt has hardened my own personal attitude toward the situtation as well. Up until today, my hopes as to the final outcome of this little disagreement were that in the end you might be forced to shell out a little cash in insurance settlements and would be thus encouaged to re-evaluate your future conduct and behavior. What I did not want to see as an outcome was your field to close, simply because (despite it's faults) it gives the airsoft community in the Cove/Killeen/Temple/Bryan area (most of whom seem like decent guys) a handy place to play. I'm all about the hobby as a whole after all. But after this latest stunt (an ill considered d-ck move to say the least...especially before you decided to remove the gentleman's phone number from the post) my hope is that your insurance company eventually drops you entirely, or raises your rates to the point you have to close shop. To be brutally honest, the hobby does not need a business run by someone so lacking in tact, personal responsibility, and common sense.
Now of course, within an hour or two Dave will delete my post and ban my account*. That's what he does when he gets any sort of criticism or hears an opinion he does not like: he tries to silence it. That's not how men act, Dave.
Cheers.
TR
*-Bans and IP blocks are laughably easy to get around for anyone aside from the most basic of 'net users. We are talking two key strokes and a reboot simple. So it's almost a slap in the face to try. Thus this message will not be going away....so it's a waste of time and effort to try to delete it.
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 22:49:12 GMT -5
just to clear up something.. new options have opened up including sueing people for liabal to make up for any shortfall. the only change is that now everyone can see the letter that was sent to the insurance co.... just your team cant play there thats all. so im going to do my thing and defend the comunity.
thanks for the kind words.
umm what names did i call anyone???
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Post by trenchraider2 on Apr 22, 2012 23:38:33 GMT -5
umm what names did i call anyone???
Oh let's see. -"Liar" -"Stupid" -"Troll" To name a few. And that's just the direct insults. There is alot of implied stuff as well. Shall I dig through the forum archive and find some more? It's interesting that in the eight paragraphs and several hundred words of my post, you latched onto the name calling as the one thing to challenge my word on. That's one of the least serious issues. Ah well. TR |
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 22, 2012 23:45:24 GMT -5
you are confuseing me with others, but.....
it will all come out in court.
thanks.
dave
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Post by trenchraider2 on Apr 22, 2012 23:53:35 GMT -5
it will all come out in court.
Really? Years ago I took an introductory law course as an elective. (something I highly recomend for anyone as it's very interesting.) Something the instructor said at the time has stayed with me, and applies here: "Sue, or don't sue. But never THREATEN to sue". Can anyone tell me why that's good sound advice? Ah well. It's late and I'm turning in now. See you around. TR |
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Post by Redkangavoosa on Apr 23, 2012 5:22:59 GMT -5
Just a quick thing I want to ask, lets back up a few steps, I'm a bit confused by the wording of the initial claim letter from Hilt;
"I had a tooth shot out by an incoming airsoft BB. The gun was chronographed, and found to be shooting within legal limits, and the player was found to be within the rules."
A few lines later...
"6. Players were told that the use of full face protection was optional for anyone over 18 at this local. "
A few lines later...
"...had these regulations been strictly enforced, my own injury would not have happened."
Erm. What?
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 23, 2012 6:41:05 GMT -5
this is all confuseing to lots of people, and there seems to be a lack of integerety like................
My name is Hugh Whitted, and I am the claimant on a claim against Kookaburra Airsoft Field in Temple Texas, owner Dave Demorrow
next email and what he is telling people.........
I never called for your field to be shut down. After receiving their reply and claim form, I had already been treated for my injury, and due to the resulting low cost of treatment, never filed a claim.
the problem is that he never told the insurance company that he was not fileing a claim.
confused yet?
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 23, 2012 6:44:21 GMT -5
Wow....just....wow. I'm amazed. Just when I thought I might have seen it all, this pops up. Dave, you are still in complete denial that you share at least some culpability in this whole mess. (something I thought was over months ago...and by all rights should have been.) Not even addressing the safety issues and at best medicodre management of the Reforger Op (I was there....I saw the issues too), this all really began when the criticism started to come in and you reacted badly to it. Yes, some of the criticism was harsh, but most of it was something you could have taken to heart and improved your operations in the future. A professional would have taken both the negative feedback with the good, thanked everyone for their opinions, and looked to moving forward using both good and bad experiences to make future events better, safer experiences for everyone. But you didn't do that. You took it personal and went into knee-jerk defensive mode. You lashed out at anyone who said anything that was not completely positive. You attacked those who were critical of the event, you called them names, belittled them (and indeed libeled them), went on other forums and made jokes in poor taste about injuries, and then to cap it all off, banned everyone remotely associated with the incident (or who spoke out in favor of those who were) from your forum and site in a sort of Soviet style purge in miniature. It would all be funny, if it were not so pathetic.....as well as possibly harmful and devisive to the hobby as a whole. I'm in close touch with the gentleman who authored the letter you post here, so I can say with 100% certainty that had you reacted in a much more professional (and indeed rational and mature) manner, this all would have ended within a few days of the Reforger OP and we all could have moved on. Instead you reacted like you did back in January and the effects you are now feeling (yes, I'm aware of what they are) that caused you to pull this latest stunt are largely your own doing. You caused this to escalate by your own poor judgement and tedency to act before thinking the consequences of your actions through. I've said it before and I'll say it again now: you are your own worst enemy. This most recent stunt has hardened my own personal attitude toward the situtation as well. Up until today, my hopes as to the final outcome of this little disagreement were that in the end you might be forced to shell out a little cash in insurance settlements and would be thus encouaged to re-evaluate your future conduct and behavior. What I did not want to see as an outcome was your field to close, simply because (despite it's faults) it gives the airsoft community in the Cove/Killeen/Temple/Bryan area (most of whom seem like decent guys) a handy place to play. I'm all about the hobby as a whole after all. But after this latest stunt (an ill considered d-ck move to say the least...especially before you decided to remove the gentleman's phone number from the post) my hope is that your insurance company eventually drops you entirely, or raises your rates to the point you have to close shop. To be brutally honest, the hobby does not need a business run by someone so lacking in tact, personal responsibility, and common sense. Now of course, within an hour or two Dave will delete my post and ban my account*. That's what he does when he gets any sort of criticism or hears an opinion he does not like: he tries to silence it. That's not how men act, Dave. Cheers. TR *-Bans and IP blocks are laughably easy to get around for anyone aside from the most basic of 'net users. We are talking two key strokes and a reboot simple. So it's almost a slap in the face to try. Thus this message will not be going away....so it's a waste of time and effort to try to delete it. just how much cash were you looking for from my insurance for his admitted actions? sounds like extortion to me. and lets be clear mr whitted is your cousin. |
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Post by hobbit2 on Apr 23, 2012 7:25:03 GMT -5
Hello there everyone! I posted on Clan Reckoning's site where Dave is free to post and respond to me so that i wouldn't have to get around his silly IP ban, but alas it appears he was ignoring me there, so here I am.
Just here to provide a little background. I was banned from this forum on my initial account (hobbit) for posting a negative AAR. I made a second account (silly me i didn't call it hobbit2 at the time), lilly, and that one was also banned... for being annoying, i guess. That is why "lilly" is banned from the field, as I have never taken legal action against dave.
On to more current matters:
Redkangavoosa, the reason its written as such is this:
1. We were told face protection was optional for those over 18 (The Insurance company's rules say otherwise)
2. The gun WAS within the legal limits (engagement distance/chrono speed)
3. Had the rules put in place by Dave's insurance been in place (Full face mask req. for everyone) Hilt's injury could not have occurred.
Dave:
The reason we call you crazy Dave is because its way too common of a name, and airsoft Dave doesn't cut it (We have 2 others of those already). Crazy Dave is kinda cute, don't you think?
Also:
Your insurance should be aware he never filed a claim when... he never filed a claim. The reason he words it as if he had, is had the cost of his tooth been more consequential, as he initially expected, he would have.
As for the extortion mark, I reread TR's post and I assume you are talking about the "shell out some cash line". I think he is hoping hilt will still file a claim against you(unlikely, hes done with this), as you would likely still have to pay it.
As for my other accounts, I'm going to request you send me a record of all private messages to and from my both of my accounts, and Hilts account. If you do end up getting a lawyer, you will not have the option not to.
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Post by dave OC-6 on Apr 23, 2012 7:35:28 GMT -5
boy you never listen
you were looking at the wrong insurance policy. the rules listed came in to effect JAN 1st 2012 for new insurance policies. i was under the old policy grandfathered in to the end of APR 2012 and was not required to have full face or brl socks at that time. we are going to that standard next week with the new policy. i told you and that months ago, i tried to show you, and i have a copy of the policy for review at the field for anyone to look at. allways have. it was his option at the time. his actions at the time now have required this to change. silly actions like the ones taken take options like that away from players. if this keeps up there will be no more airsoft due to players like yourself. no personal responsibility is not the fault of the field. thanks for coming.
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Post by hobbit2 on Apr 23, 2012 7:44:29 GMT -5
Actually, I do listen, and this is new information to me. From what I can tell the reason he looked into that particular policy/rule set, as opposed to literally any other one on the internet, would be because you sent him there. If those were not the rules your insurance requested/required, perhaps you should have directed him to the correct location in the first place?
Man, makes the whole thing seem like a misunderstanding...one that could have been fixed with proper information.
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