Reforger 2012 Feedback

[hilt]

Too all concerned,
Let me start by saying that this thread is in no way directed at any individual. It addresses items of concern to me, and the lack of foresight that created them. I admit now, upfront, that i did not stay for the whole day, and left at about 12:45-1, any events happening after this point are not being commented on.
The day started off a bit rocky as any airsoft event does. People were late, things were delayed, and a small amount of chaos ensued. This is to be expected. After this, safety briefing happened, nothing new or different there.
When I showed up to chrono, I was a bit surprised to see that players were allowed to bring their own bbs... It has long been known that while many in our hobby are persons of integrity, there will always be people out there who are not. Its a bad idea to allow that many players to show up and just say "I'm running .2g bbs..." and take them at their word.

In a crowd of over 120 people, there will always be some whom are dishonest in this regard. Have them chrono using .2g bbs that you provide. Yes, it takes longer, but it ensures the integrity of our hobby and the safety of our players.

While in this line, I was also surprised to hear the gentleman running the chrono tell a player, oh your running X velocity, so your engagement distance will be 50 ft. Not knowing the exact measurement, but hearing him tell this player that he was running hot, and just to up his engagement distance, was disturbing. We (TASO) have long had established guidelines for AEGs of varrying velocities. At over 400fps, (with a grace of ~10 fps) players are required to be running support weapons to be allowed. An m4 doesn't fall in this category .

After these events, we joined our squad and headed out onto the field of battle. We reached our start point, and prepared. At this point we hear a random whistle faintly from the town. We barely heard it. This was the signal for game on. Spurred into action by the prospect of "slaying foes", we charged into town and were immediately overwhelmed by enemy fire. Our teammates (who started slightly farther away), were late to the fight because they had not heard the start whistle.

When they did show up, mass chaos ensued, as my squad was in BDUs , and they were wearing desert marpat, but were still our supposed allies. After this things just began to degenerate. I was subject to friendly fire no less than 5 times in a 30 minute period, because no one (friend or foe) was certain who was on which side.

Shortly after re-spawning and joining the fight, I was engaged in a firefight, with a foe this time, and started exchanging shots. At this point i break from tirade to applaud his behavior. I was shot in the face and had a tooth broken. Being understandably upset, I approached the player (in somewhat of an angry haze) and requested he be chronoed. Plague, of Clan Reckoning, obliged me, was checked and vindicated. I applaud him for his sportsmanship and willingness to forgive me for my rashness.

The day ended for me after this point. With an aching mouth, and the inability to distinguish friend from foe, I was no longer interested in playing.

All in all it was a very disappointing morning.

I sign off with some recommendations for Dave -

-Require players to use your .2g bbs for chrono, and mark all guns as usable or not. Not just on OP days, but skirmishes as well.
-Strictly adhere to velocity and role designations as established by TASO.
-Invest in an air horn or bull horn for game starts.
-Plan teams better, and keep color lines (tan/green) intact so as not to confuse players.

I commend you on the effort used in building your field and maintaining it as airsoft only, but at this point I am unwilling to return until these items have been remedied.

Regards,
Hilt

aka Hugh

[Rabit TFS]

Thats why people need to remember teams. Make sure before the op that you clearly know who is bluefor and who is opfor. I agree it was confusing that both teams had mixed colors but most of allied forces carried a list of opfor colors in an admin pouch and it kept the friendly fire kills down to almost nothing. I agree there were flaws but I dont think they were all daves fault. I think most of it sounds like players either not following rules or just not remembering teams.

[Meisnerd]

I had a great time, and although I did get subjected to friendly fire, I don't blame the guy - it was after lunch, and I had been NATO pre-lunch, and switched to Soviet post-lunch. Add to this that I had my squad much further forward than the rest of our team, and the poor guy thought we were NATO, lol.

Other than that, great game - man, sorry to hear about your tooth, hugh, that really sucks. I started wearing a mesh face mask after I saw what happened to some other people... I figure the safety of my teeth is my own responsibility.

[mugensamurai]

Good game. Lacked organization, but some good fire fights were had, and some new friends were made. In my own opinion, the "capture the flag" objective was poorly planned. respawn points and objectives should not be the same thing. It just leads to what happened alot today. Hopefully player suggestions and feedback will fix some of the problems that occurred today.

I hope that my rate of fire kept a few heads down.

[Diamondback]

I had fun Im going to edit the video i filmed tomorrow but note to self never let the sniper film the videos I was in the trenches most of the Time so all you can see is wall and when I was shooting I was on my belly and the camera was on my vest ( well for the last part it was in a even worse place on my arm witch is why the first round will be cut out just like shattered skies.)

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

This was a amazing OP. For me and my buddies being on the FUF (free Ukrainian force) i thought we did pretty well. I wish i could do this everyday

[ghost]

I really enjoyed the game. I did run into team mix ups but no friendly fire. Didn't really have any problems. Would like to see some of the videos once they are ready.

[dave OC-6]

ok I am going to cover some things.
1 I sell 9 different types of face mask, some starting at 10.00
2. if you don’t want to purchases a mask I have 20 full face masks for use for free. All you have to do was ask for one. Its free.

3. we crooned the vast majority of guns and found some shooting hot and kept them off the field.

4. there were 3 guns that were 5 or LESS FPS over the limit in the morning. All 3 had new springs in them (in the last 4 days) and were recronoed during the game and had come down the few FPS that they were over, I still made them use a 30 ft rule just to be safe.

5. we had the crono on the field and checked about 30 guns during the game and didn’t find any that were over the limit. Not one.

6. FPS LIMITS 400 or less 20 ft, 400- 450 50 ft, 450-500 was 100 ft. that was what the limits were, and they were enforced. We had 4 close engagements that I know of and I took care of them. I was all over the field and if there was a problem myself or my other 3 OCs were on it if known.

There was 1 sniper issue that I took care of and he was warned that he was at 80 ft not 100 ft (nato).

7 we processed 90 people in under 45 min during the rush just prior to the battle.


Uniforms
Nato, USMC, ACU, ATACS, MULTICAM, german. FUF (civilian)

Soviet BDU, DCU, desert uniforms, BDU with black top

Simple its been posted for 2 months, its not too hard.


Thanks
dave

[Redkangavoosa]

Well, to his defense, we could've used some duct-tape armbands for better ID. It has worked well in the past, for Risk, Skies, etc.

It wasn't an issue for me, and I was wearing desert fleck rolling on NATO, so I got lit up quite a few times by friendlies myself, but I didn't have too many glaring issues about it, I had fun today.

I saw FUF at one point had some ID tape on them, and I was looking around for it, but couldn't find the colored duct tape, so it was my fault there on that part, but I forgot about it afterwards.

I just kind of thought of it when I got home just now, and read this post+ the other's, and analyzed how these issues were avoided in the past.

[Deleted]

My take on today was good. Yes there were a lot of different uniforms running around but the information has been out for a good while. My team and I printed out maps for all of the allied commanders and on each wrote a list of each unit both friendly and enemy and what uniforms each wore. The only big issue was on the FUF because one kid was wearing the same thing as the Hillcrest team. It was identified and he was marked with a green/yellow arm band.

As for team play, I noticed most units stuck together and accomplished the objectives I set them on. I had radio issues (went thru 3 of them in the beginning) but commo worked well on the NATO side for the most part. I did run into some range issues but thats the gear and a testament to the size of the field. I cant thank Wraven, Wulf, Scothtape, Xulo, Duke, and Buckley enough yall made my job easy. I walked and ran all over the place today and yall did great. Yes I saw a few shrugged off shots but to be honest that seemed to be mainly in the beginning and thats when all the adrenaline is flowing. Biggest issue was people spawning at points that were in the process of being captured. That too was remedied after lunch (for the most part).

At the end of the day I know my team had a great time. CSTAT will be at more Temple games to come and we greatly appreciated the game today. Where there problems, yes but they were addressed and remedied. Thats my two cents. Thanks for having me as the NATO commander.

[killxmxall]

I had a GREAT time today . Lots of people , moving vehicles ,and big maps. It was fun . No complaints here . Wish that many people would show every weekend .Thanks Dave for an awesome BATTLEFIELD .

[hilt]

Jan 21, 2012 21:06:31 GMT -5 dave OC-6 said:

ok I am going to cover some things.
1 I sell 9 different types of face mask, some starting at 10.00
2. if you don’t want to purchases a mask I have 20 full face masks for use for free. All you have to do was ask for one. Its free.

3. we crooned the vast majority of guns and found some shooting hot and kept them off the field.

4. there were 3 guns that were 5 or LESS FPS over the limit in the morning. All 3 had new springs in them (in the last 4 days) and were recronoed during the game and had come down the few FPS that they were over, I still made them use a 30 ft rule just to be safe.

5. we had the crono on the field and checked about 30 guns during the game and didn’t find any that were over the limit. Not one.

6. FPS LIMITS 400 or less 20 ft, 400- 450 50 ft, 450-500 was 100 ft. that was what the limits were, and they were enforced. We had 4 close engagements that I know of and I took care of them. I was all over the field and if there was a problem myself or my other 3 OCs were on it if known.

There was 1 sniper issue that I took care of and he was warned that he was at 80 ft not 100 ft (nato).

7 we processed 90 people in under 45 min during the rush just prior to the battle.


Uniforms
Nato, USMC, ACU, ATACS, MULTICAM, german. FUF (civilian)

Soviet BDU, DCU, desert uniforms, BDU with black top

Simple its been posted for 2 months, its not too hard.


Thanks
dave

Dave - I was not laying the tooth incident on you. I am responsible for that, and its no one else's issue.

Uniforms
[Nato, USMC, ACU, ATACS, MULTICAM, german. FUF (civilian)]<-- All green

[Soviet BDU, DCU, desert uniforms, BDU with black top] <-- Not all tan or green

Im not talking about shooting my own. I'm talking about them shooting me. And whether they were posted or not, its a bad idea to not have color splits for uniforms. The fact that I was friendly fired explains why this was an issue. Apparently, some people (at least 5 different ones in my case) werent clear on these. The fact that the other team didn't see this as an issue only shows that it did make a very one sided problem.

FPS/Engagement
3. we crooned the vast majority of guns and found some shooting hot and kept them off the field.

That means not all. Why take the risk when its an easy task to modify procedure to insure against this.

5. we had the crono on the field and checked about 30 guns during the game and didn’t find any that were over the limit. Not one.

Congrats. I'm glad. You checked less than 1/4 of the guns on the field. Again, why risk it?

6. FPS LIMITS 400 or less 20 ft, 400- 450 50 ft, 450-500 was 100 ft. that was what the limits were, and they were enforced. We had 4 close engagements that I know of and I took care of them. I was all over the field and if there was a problem myself or my other 3 OCs were on it if known.

I never said these weren't enforced. But the 400-450 velocities are designated as support weapons, and a standard m4 doesn't fall in this category. 450-550 are the realm of sniper rifles, and should be semi only.


Regardless of your replies, the issues (and in some cases potential for issues) were still there. They produced an environment that I do not wish to play in. Until I'm satisfied that they are corrected, I won't be back.

It's advice, you can take it or leave it. If you take it, I'll be back, and happy to give it another go. If not, there are other venues around.

[dave OC-6]

3. we crooned the vast majority of guns and found some shooting hot and kept them off the field.

i was referring to people slipping back to there cars and getting replicas that were not cronoed. you can never crono ALL the guns, but we did our best to crono all that we could. then we had a back up plan to try and catch the ones we could not, then we had another plan to ID any HOT guns. the only way to catch EVERY gun would to do a body search and then lock down everyone on the field. then you would have a issue with the new quick change springs for the ares / ICS / tavor guns.

again the vast majority of the guns were checked with 2 systems of trying to catch any leakers. if you have a better system im all ears.

at any time you as a player could have ask myself or my team to crono ANY other players gun on the spot. show me another field in the area that will do that.
we take safety to hart

[dave OC-6]

no M-4 was over 404 at the start of the game, the one that was had a new spring installed the day prior and was down to 390ish prior to the main fight.... and i still made him have a special 30 ft Min engagement range for the day.

[hilt]

Jan 21, 2012 22:56:17 GMT -5 dave OC-6 said:

3. we crooned the vast majority of guns and found some shooting hot and kept them off the field.

i was referring to people slipping back to there cars and getting replicas that were not cronoed. you can never crono ALL the guns, but we did our best to crono all that we could. then we had a back up plan to try and catch the ones we could not, then we had another plan to ID any HOT guns. the only way to catch EVERY gun would to do a body search and then lock down everyone on the field. then you would have a issue with the new quick change springs for the ares / ICS / tavor guns.

again the vast majority of the guns were checked with 2 systems of trying to catch any leakers. if you have a better system im all ears.

at any time you as a player could have ask myself or my team to crono ANY other players gun on the spot. show me another field in the area that will do that.
we take safety to hart

Again not arguing your general results, just your methods. My recommendations were in the original post, chrono with .2g, tag the guns with zip ties (or other) as good or bad. No tie, then you spot check them on the field. Pull people randomly at spawn points and check as well as those who are pointed out as concerns. I did actually have some one chronoed, as mentioned originally, and the system worked as it should.

Again Dave, I'm not pleased with the day's outcome, I've made recommendations for change. I posted it in multiple places because its open for discussion with other players and to help gather input. I'm done discussing it here. If you wish to discuss it further, email me.

[dave OC-6]

i am locking this thread right now for the following reasons.
1. i have PMed hilt 2-3 times asking him to contact me directly and giving him my phone number.
2. he is posting reviews on other web sites (LSA) knowing full well i can not respond to the feedback, nor can anyone respond in a positive manner.
3. he has posted on another board in addition to that, again refusing to directly contacting me about things he is calming that i know to be untrue (knowingly placing players in danger).

if he contacts me and offers proof of the things he is accusing me and my staff of doing than i will unlock this thread.
thanks
Dave

[dave OC-6]

ok he finally did what i ask about calling me, nothing resolved. but as stated thread unlocked

[lily]

Don't know if you meant to lock this one, but you did not, also, Hobbit, Hilt, and DontFearTheReaper, have all been banned from this forum due to constructive criticism.

In Soviet Russia, criticism bans you! But I guess on the interwebs its just crazy dave.

Doubt this post will be up for long!

[Buck]

I don't think Dave has banned anyone...so let's not trash talk.

[Rocky25-06]

NO SHOOTING CIVILIANS!!! I heard from friends they were shot at while working on fence I think that might need to be in the next safety briefing. Kinda like "if I'm saying it its happened"

[88B88888B88B888]

Louie12....What are you talking about? There where no non-players along the fence line. Honestly you need to shut up and stop spreading rumors. If Dave removes this then fine, it will be the last thing I post for awhile. But your ignorance is not needed. If you didn't actually see it then don't report it, I doubt you were even at the field for the Op.

[LT]

agreed. stay professional and no trash talk. this thread is supposed to focus on FEEDBACK. Dave, staff, and future players need to know sustains and improves for future games to make the place better.

[LT]

...i meant "agreed" toward a prior posting about neutral commentary. Mr. Poo and some others beat me to a posting before i was done

[Rocky25-06]

I'm not blaming Dave at all I'm just saying because I was told about it by the people getting shot at.

[lily]

Jan 23, 2012 20:14:32 GMT -5 Buck said:

I don't think Dave has banned anyone...so let's not trash talk.

Yeah he did, I can show you SS's if you don't believe me

There where no non-players along the fence line. Honestly you need to shut up and stop spreading rumors.

And yes, a neighbor was shot by people trespassing out of Dave's property. Luckily he was understanding didn't press charges.

[LT]

no, that farmer WASN'T shot or hit by any bbs, stray or direct. at worst, some players trespassed onto his property attempting a flanking maneuver. they were corrected and put back onto field of play.

[Buck]

Is there not a fence around the whole field?

[Rocky25-06]

There is but if his cows or donkeys ow whatever he has broke one part of the fence he would need to gofixing it so they don't get on Dave's field

[dave OC-6]

yes there is a fence around the field, 4 strand barbed wire around the entire field, maps were posted here, maps were passed out to key people. there is a buffer zone of about 10 feet then another fence. from what i was told from the farmer there was 2-3 people in the buffer area, he was not shot or shot at from what i was told by him. i talked to the farmer and he said he was not shot but i will recheck tomorrow. i did suspend some peoples accounts to keep any threads from vanishing. if they were banned like in soviet russia they would not still be posting here.

some people here are just stiring things up, lets move on people nothing to see here. the thing im getting out of this is that all the issues talked about are not from any of the normal field players.
lets learn fro it and move on.
thanks guys
dave

[Rocky25-06]

I was misleading I was going off of information from a distant distant person it isn't completely true just rumors sorry guys.