Post by dave OC-6 on Mar 1, 2012 12:19:20 GMT -5
i am posting this information from LSA to show how hypocritical some of the postings are.
remember the small band that runs the forum have said that temple is unsafe due to not following TASO rules and following my insurance rules.
i am not bashing the field, i was not there, just reposting the issues there. if someone gets hurt under a taso function it hurts not only them but the whole hobby. as any player knows this in NOT how temple airsoft works, never has, never will. if the following is true than we can use it as a tool to make sure it never happens here.
I am normally not one to make a huge issue about rules, and have primarily done my best to avoid confrontation when it comes to them, but after not being able to come out at all recently to Texas Paintball, I attended the game this last Sunday and observed a number of violations that were a bit disturbing. The first one of these was a lack of any sort of leadership running chrono. When I got there, admittedly a bit late, I asked who was running it, and a group of people just pointed me towards the paintball chrono, where I chronoe'd myself with another veteran player witnessing it to avoid any trouble. I saw no sign though that other people were being asked to chrono at all, and no one was seemingly running it throughout the day as more players showed up. The next thing I saw was a player wearing a full face MESH mask, clearly with no glasses underneath as we played the next game. Again, as has been said numerous times, mesh without glasses underneath is not, and has never been allowed at Texas Paintball to my knowledge. Now I thought this was done until slightly later in the day when we joined up with some other airsofters playing in there own group as many of the players from earlier had left. During the game we played with them, I witnessed, and corrected, at least four players multiple times to put there face masks back on while they were inside the field of play and not in the safe zone. Not only that, but multiple people in this group of people were clearly under 16 and wearing goggles, not full face masks as is also required to my knowledge. I let the group, as well as the father with them know this was also against the rules, on which they appeared to pay no attention. I am not exactly sure as who to talk to now to make sure things are enforced properly, as before Shadowcat had done all the briefings and safety checks, but he was not there, and there was no real sense of leadership. Feel free to correct me on anything I am incorrect about here, but changes in this new situation are needed.
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Yesterday 09:21 PM #2
Cryptex
LSA Member
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Austin Posts: 175
I was running it most of the day until around 3:30, when I had to leave to meet with some family.
At around 10 I gathered everyone I saw to the safety briefing, did the safety briefing, and around 10:30 I chrono'd everyone and we started playing. From what I observed, everything was going fine in the group I was running until I left. However, I noticed a bunch of people break off around the time we had the lunch break, and from then on until I left there seemed to be 2 groups running around, 1 led by me and I don't know who was in the other one. I can't moderate both groups at a time, and I KNOW there were people in the other group not following the rules at TXPB, specifically the goggles rule as you mentioned. I also know people showed up around noon and were not chronoed, which was my fault but between getting everyone to actually move to the fields we were going to and gathering them up so we could discuss what to do was rather time consuming.
In any case, I'll definitely be more attentive to when people show up and get them to chrono, and hopefully get people to play in one big group rather than having a bunch of smaller groups without proper supervision.
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Yesterday 09:43 PM #3
Cannon Fodder
Meat Shield
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 332
I know it has been a long time since I have been out but in my experience if you are noticing a void in the leadership department step up and fill it. I used to like to have a copy of the chrono limits and a bullet list of the rules so if need be I could step up and get the show going the right way. You probably just had a large number of new players. If you have concerns get everyone together after a game a go over the rules again. I don't think people are allowed to go off on their own but what do I know. If you are having really unruly players you could try talking to the field owner but I don't know how much time he has to look after people. Maybe let him know when people are wandering off or not wearing masks. Good luck for next time.
... Want me to go make some noise and see if I get shot?
O.D.G. Merc
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Yesterday 10:49 PM #4
Nashorn101
M777 155mm Field Gun
Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 94
Originally Posted by dman3lax4
I am normally not one to make a huge issue about rules, and have primarily done my best to avoid confrontation when it comes to them, but after not being able to come out at all recently to Texas Paintball, I attended the game this last Sunday and observed a number of violations that were a bit disturbing. The first one of these was a lack of any sort of leadership running chrono. When I got there, admittedly a bit late, I asked who was running it, and a group of people just pointed me towards the paintball chrono, where I chronoe'd myself with another veteran player witnessing it to avoid any trouble. I saw no sign though that other people were being asked to chrono at all, and no one was seemingly running it throughout the day as more players showed up. The next thing I saw was a player wearing a full face MESH mask, clearly with no glasses underneath as we played the next game. Again, as has been said numerous times, mesh without glasses underneath is not, and has never been allowed at Texas Paintball to my knowledge. Now I thought this was done until slightly later in the day when we joined up with some other airsofters playing in there own group as many of the players from earlier had left. During the game we played with them, I witnessed, and corrected, at least four players multiple times to put there face masks back on while they were inside the field of play and not in the safe zone. Not only that, but multiple people in this group of people were clearly under 16 and wearing goggles, not full face masks as is also required to my knowledge. I let the group, as well as the father with them know this was also against the rules, on which they appeared to pay no attention. I am not exactly sure as who to talk to now to make sure things are enforced properly, as before Shadowcat had done all the briefings and safety checks, but he was not there, and there was no real sense of leadership. Feel free to correct me on anything I am incorrect about here, but changes in this new situation are needed.
This has happened several times I went to TX:PB, and was very disturbing yes.
Usually we have a couple of the older guys running the airsoft functions and safety guidance. But thats my personal experience.
Last edited by Nashorn101; Yesterday at 10:51 PM.
"Although I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil for thou art with me..." Psalms 23:4
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Yesterday 11:58 PM #5
BigMC
LSA Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 12
Hey guys,
I'am fairly new to airsoft and hearing this kind of stuff turns me off to weekly airsoft skrimishes. I'am an older guy and looking forward to play some airsoft with older or matured players.... Even though the kids are probably better players.
Rules make the game fair and safe...I'm a true believer of that!
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today 02:23 AM #6
AustinWolv
Velociraptor.....sic him!
Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Central TX Posts: 13,441
There were a number of inaccuracies out there on Sunday. I corrected no less than 6 different kids to keep their goggles down while out on the field. Despite the safety briefing, no more than 10 minutes later, I saw no less than 3 different AEGs with magazines inserted in the "safe zone" gazebo area, at which point I pulled the mags out of each of the guns as the owners weren't around. Discussed it with them a few minutes later, and they were receptive. Also corrected a minor on sweeping his friends with his pistol with finger on the trigger in the area. Some douche who was definitely over 18 was walking around with his AEG over his back with his mag in and half-complained when I made him take it out. He kept whining as he wandered away but too bad for him sucking at basic firearm safety.
The group that went off to play airsoft by themselves were ones that showed up later or were walk-up customers it appeared, as they weren't a part of the LSA group or at least for not very long. I didn't see them in the valley skirmishes near the end of the day.
Cryptex did fine with the safety briefing for being a young guy. I didn't see any other people stepping up to do it; that coming from someone who did it weekly for two years straight out there in the past during one stretch and routinely for several years at a lesser frequency......
Chrono was also run just fine, except for people that showed up later, which has always been a possible loophole in years past. Hell, another loophole is when people switch out guns halfway through the day if we want to get nitpicky. I can point out quite a bit more......(see below).
I saw no sign though that other people were being asked to chrono at all, Because you showed up late. Cryptex instructed people to go up there after the safety briefing, and I saw that happen. He chrono'd me in fact.
Was it run perfect? No, I saw some holes but that was due to my experience in knowing the sneaks that cheaters will do at chrono that majority of players don't know about, and I'd be willing to bet that many out there have no idea about........in other words, it was adequate, and it was performed.
Mesh eye protection is not allowed per TASO rules.
Mesh eye protection is NOT permitted as they are not adequate. I missed who had it. Perhaps you should have discussed it with that person or pointed it out to an older player to do so if you didn't want to.....
www.texasairsoft.org/content....-of-Engagement
If Dave has said otherwise, that is his problem.
There was a lack of organization overall, but.......Airsoft is run by the players. Step up and do something if you don't like it....... or don't bitch about it. Have a say and take the initiative....... or don't bitch about it.
Cryptex, no offense, but it was a step back from when the older guys were there running things. That isn't your fault, so don't sweat it or let any comments in this thread get you down because you ARE stepping up to do something about it.
People sitting back and bitching and EXPECTING others to do things for them or be their gophers to bitch to and go fix all the problems are why a majority of the vets haven't been going to the weekly games anymore.
You are correct though. Not having the veterans out there does leave a hole in organized leadership/logistics. However, thinking it depends on one person or two people to routinely make it happen is false hope. It is called a community for a reason, and there is a reason that the cheatsheet was created, the rules are easily printed out, the Intro to Skirmishing is easily printed out, the Scenario Ideas document is readily available, and so on. The rules and procedures have been in place for ages. However, airsoft has always been about the people and still is. People make it happen. People need to follow them or be invited to not be included in the skirmishing.
www.lonestarairsoft.com/showt...layer-briefing
Hell, there are ways to get strict about this stuff such as anyone showing up late simply won't be playing that day, but again, it depends on people stepping up to enforce.
Even though the kids are probably better players. You would be surprised then.
Last edited by AustinWolv; Today at 02:35 AM.
Wolv
Whiskey Company
---------------------
-At the end of the day, we’re just all playing with toy guns.
-In airsoft, nobody's wrong.
-…the stupid hit me so hard … I blacked out for a second.
---------------------
You receive what you give. 'Disconnected', In Flames
Reply With Quote
remember the small band that runs the forum have said that temple is unsafe due to not following TASO rules and following my insurance rules.
i am not bashing the field, i was not there, just reposting the issues there. if someone gets hurt under a taso function it hurts not only them but the whole hobby. as any player knows this in NOT how temple airsoft works, never has, never will. if the following is true than we can use it as a tool to make sure it never happens here.
I am normally not one to make a huge issue about rules, and have primarily done my best to avoid confrontation when it comes to them, but after not being able to come out at all recently to Texas Paintball, I attended the game this last Sunday and observed a number of violations that were a bit disturbing. The first one of these was a lack of any sort of leadership running chrono. When I got there, admittedly a bit late, I asked who was running it, and a group of people just pointed me towards the paintball chrono, where I chronoe'd myself with another veteran player witnessing it to avoid any trouble. I saw no sign though that other people were being asked to chrono at all, and no one was seemingly running it throughout the day as more players showed up. The next thing I saw was a player wearing a full face MESH mask, clearly with no glasses underneath as we played the next game. Again, as has been said numerous times, mesh without glasses underneath is not, and has never been allowed at Texas Paintball to my knowledge. Now I thought this was done until slightly later in the day when we joined up with some other airsofters playing in there own group as many of the players from earlier had left. During the game we played with them, I witnessed, and corrected, at least four players multiple times to put there face masks back on while they were inside the field of play and not in the safe zone. Not only that, but multiple people in this group of people were clearly under 16 and wearing goggles, not full face masks as is also required to my knowledge. I let the group, as well as the father with them know this was also against the rules, on which they appeared to pay no attention. I am not exactly sure as who to talk to now to make sure things are enforced properly, as before Shadowcat had done all the briefings and safety checks, but he was not there, and there was no real sense of leadership. Feel free to correct me on anything I am incorrect about here, but changes in this new situation are needed.
Reply With Quote .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday 09:21 PM #2
Cryptex
LSA Member
Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Austin Posts: 175
I was running it most of the day until around 3:30, when I had to leave to meet with some family.
At around 10 I gathered everyone I saw to the safety briefing, did the safety briefing, and around 10:30 I chrono'd everyone and we started playing. From what I observed, everything was going fine in the group I was running until I left. However, I noticed a bunch of people break off around the time we had the lunch break, and from then on until I left there seemed to be 2 groups running around, 1 led by me and I don't know who was in the other one. I can't moderate both groups at a time, and I KNOW there were people in the other group not following the rules at TXPB, specifically the goggles rule as you mentioned. I also know people showed up around noon and were not chronoed, which was my fault but between getting everyone to actually move to the fields we were going to and gathering them up so we could discuss what to do was rather time consuming.
In any case, I'll definitely be more attentive to when people show up and get them to chrono, and hopefully get people to play in one big group rather than having a bunch of smaller groups without proper supervision.
Reply With Quote .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday 09:43 PM #3
Cannon Fodder
Meat Shield
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 332
I know it has been a long time since I have been out but in my experience if you are noticing a void in the leadership department step up and fill it. I used to like to have a copy of the chrono limits and a bullet list of the rules so if need be I could step up and get the show going the right way. You probably just had a large number of new players. If you have concerns get everyone together after a game a go over the rules again. I don't think people are allowed to go off on their own but what do I know. If you are having really unruly players you could try talking to the field owner but I don't know how much time he has to look after people. Maybe let him know when people are wandering off or not wearing masks. Good luck for next time.
... Want me to go make some noise and see if I get shot?
O.D.G. Merc
Reply With Quote .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday 10:49 PM #4
Nashorn101
M777 155mm Field Gun
Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 94
Originally Posted by dman3lax4
I am normally not one to make a huge issue about rules, and have primarily done my best to avoid confrontation when it comes to them, but after not being able to come out at all recently to Texas Paintball, I attended the game this last Sunday and observed a number of violations that were a bit disturbing. The first one of these was a lack of any sort of leadership running chrono. When I got there, admittedly a bit late, I asked who was running it, and a group of people just pointed me towards the paintball chrono, where I chronoe'd myself with another veteran player witnessing it to avoid any trouble. I saw no sign though that other people were being asked to chrono at all, and no one was seemingly running it throughout the day as more players showed up. The next thing I saw was a player wearing a full face MESH mask, clearly with no glasses underneath as we played the next game. Again, as has been said numerous times, mesh without glasses underneath is not, and has never been allowed at Texas Paintball to my knowledge. Now I thought this was done until slightly later in the day when we joined up with some other airsofters playing in there own group as many of the players from earlier had left. During the game we played with them, I witnessed, and corrected, at least four players multiple times to put there face masks back on while they were inside the field of play and not in the safe zone. Not only that, but multiple people in this group of people were clearly under 16 and wearing goggles, not full face masks as is also required to my knowledge. I let the group, as well as the father with them know this was also against the rules, on which they appeared to pay no attention. I am not exactly sure as who to talk to now to make sure things are enforced properly, as before Shadowcat had done all the briefings and safety checks, but he was not there, and there was no real sense of leadership. Feel free to correct me on anything I am incorrect about here, but changes in this new situation are needed.
This has happened several times I went to TX:PB, and was very disturbing yes.
Usually we have a couple of the older guys running the airsoft functions and safety guidance. But thats my personal experience.
Last edited by Nashorn101; Yesterday at 10:51 PM.
"Although I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I shall fear no evil for thou art with me..." Psalms 23:4
Reply With Quote .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yesterday 11:58 PM #5
BigMC
LSA Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 12
Hey guys,
I'am fairly new to airsoft and hearing this kind of stuff turns me off to weekly airsoft skrimishes. I'am an older guy and looking forward to play some airsoft with older or matured players.... Even though the kids are probably better players.
Rules make the game fair and safe...I'm a true believer of that!
Reply With Quote .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today 02:23 AM #6
AustinWolv
Velociraptor.....sic him!
Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Central TX Posts: 13,441
There were a number of inaccuracies out there on Sunday. I corrected no less than 6 different kids to keep their goggles down while out on the field. Despite the safety briefing, no more than 10 minutes later, I saw no less than 3 different AEGs with magazines inserted in the "safe zone" gazebo area, at which point I pulled the mags out of each of the guns as the owners weren't around. Discussed it with them a few minutes later, and they were receptive. Also corrected a minor on sweeping his friends with his pistol with finger on the trigger in the area. Some douche who was definitely over 18 was walking around with his AEG over his back with his mag in and half-complained when I made him take it out. He kept whining as he wandered away but too bad for him sucking at basic firearm safety.
The group that went off to play airsoft by themselves were ones that showed up later or were walk-up customers it appeared, as they weren't a part of the LSA group or at least for not very long. I didn't see them in the valley skirmishes near the end of the day.
Cryptex did fine with the safety briefing for being a young guy. I didn't see any other people stepping up to do it; that coming from someone who did it weekly for two years straight out there in the past during one stretch and routinely for several years at a lesser frequency......
Chrono was also run just fine, except for people that showed up later, which has always been a possible loophole in years past. Hell, another loophole is when people switch out guns halfway through the day if we want to get nitpicky. I can point out quite a bit more......(see below).
I saw no sign though that other people were being asked to chrono at all, Because you showed up late. Cryptex instructed people to go up there after the safety briefing, and I saw that happen. He chrono'd me in fact.
Was it run perfect? No, I saw some holes but that was due to my experience in knowing the sneaks that cheaters will do at chrono that majority of players don't know about, and I'd be willing to bet that many out there have no idea about........in other words, it was adequate, and it was performed.
Mesh eye protection is not allowed per TASO rules.
Mesh eye protection is NOT permitted as they are not adequate. I missed who had it. Perhaps you should have discussed it with that person or pointed it out to an older player to do so if you didn't want to.....
www.texasairsoft.org/content....-of-Engagement
If Dave has said otherwise, that is his problem.
There was a lack of organization overall, but.......Airsoft is run by the players. Step up and do something if you don't like it....... or don't bitch about it. Have a say and take the initiative....... or don't bitch about it.
Cryptex, no offense, but it was a step back from when the older guys were there running things. That isn't your fault, so don't sweat it or let any comments in this thread get you down because you ARE stepping up to do something about it.
People sitting back and bitching and EXPECTING others to do things for them or be their gophers to bitch to and go fix all the problems are why a majority of the vets haven't been going to the weekly games anymore.
You are correct though. Not having the veterans out there does leave a hole in organized leadership/logistics. However, thinking it depends on one person or two people to routinely make it happen is false hope. It is called a community for a reason, and there is a reason that the cheatsheet was created, the rules are easily printed out, the Intro to Skirmishing is easily printed out, the Scenario Ideas document is readily available, and so on. The rules and procedures have been in place for ages. However, airsoft has always been about the people and still is. People make it happen. People need to follow them or be invited to not be included in the skirmishing.
www.lonestarairsoft.com/showt...layer-briefing
Hell, there are ways to get strict about this stuff such as anyone showing up late simply won't be playing that day, but again, it depends on people stepping up to enforce.
Even though the kids are probably better players. You would be surprised then.
Last edited by AustinWolv; Today at 02:35 AM.
Wolv
Whiskey Company
---------------------
-At the end of the day, we’re just all playing with toy guns.
-In airsoft, nobody's wrong.
-…the stupid hit me so hard … I blacked out for a second.
---------------------
You receive what you give. 'Disconnected', In Flames
Reply With Quote
