Zombie Labs

[Fox]

Alright everyone so this is going to be a information gathering thread to better understand what it may take to run a safe, effective, and fun zombie based game. As Dave said if we can figure out rules and guidelines that run with what he will allow we can make a few attempts and if they prove successful we can make a large OP out of it. Something like this requires time and patients but if this is the number one thing people keep asking for let’s see if we can make it happen. This won’t be something that gets done in the next few weeks, or likely months but with enough effort maybe we can make it something to look forward to as a Fall game, maybe even go all out and make it a Halloween game.

So for the first round of the information we need is feedback from those who have been in a zombie game either at Temple or somewhere else. Tell us what worked, what didn’t work, where did fights start up, where there moments people just didn’t want to keep playing? How where the zombies designed to work, did they have anything to help mark them, did they have more hits to kill them, how did having to touch another player work out? These are the things we need to know so we can chip away at the bad and shape it into good.

[dave OC-6]

OK here are my requirements...
NO targeting of the head..... maybe 2 hits?

idea.... Styrofoam plate Velcros to your chest. when hit (pumchured) you are dead, dead.

what kind of zombies 28days vs dawn of the dead vs RE?

[sonjamichelle]

pumchured

[Fox]

These are two videos I found that show relatively successful zombie based airsoft OPs, Dave if you could through in on what works and would not work based off these as well.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb6LRbPXf4Q
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoMePNni_k

Also based on these videos and some more info I have found it seems there are a few basic things needed for a zombie OP to work well...

1. Lot and lots of zombies...lots. There needs to be a higher zombie to human ratio from the very beginning even if the zombies are not going to be seen for some time, and even in an objective based OP.
2. The easiest way I have seen to work the zombies are the basic fact that they can never be fully killed. When you shoot them they must go down for a preset amount of time, 30 secs 1 minutes, something what have you. This allows the humans time to get away and scatter before the zombies come back for them.
3. Objective. There needs to be an objective for the human to end the game and call it won. Surviving for a preset time limit only works for the zombies as they can just constantly bum rush the humans and never let up. An objective based scenario will allow for moments of rest and planning for the humans as they prepare for the next wave or phase.

After those there seems to be matters that I feel may not work on Dave's field based around the safety reasons. We should try and address each of these and see if we can work around them or replace them with another mechanic that works somewhat the same way.

1. Swarms. Zombies are not zombies unless they surround a single person and just devour them completely, so the one person separated from the group gets mauled and his screams terrify the rest of the group. The main factor here, which I will address again is the contact between players.
2. Melee. The axe, chainsaw, baseball bat, and various other objects have always been staple of zombie killing survival. This works in with the swarm idea of requiring a player to make physical contact with another player. Knife kills are hard enough to keep under control and even with LARP style weapons the want to hit a zombie when they surprise you over and over again is still there. However I do think the LARP batons would help solve the problem for the zombies. If the zombies carry two batons this is what they must use to touch, not hit or slap or stab, another player to signify they have been gotten by the zombie. With that in mind it has me answering Dave's question above of the type, and I would say George Romero zombies, the slow always coming horde that you just do not have enough bullets to put down. This way the zombies must walk at all times and so touching another player is as light as possible.
3. Ammo. So the above leads into this part with the idea of limited ammo versus anything you can carry on the field. This is where you split the idea from zombie hunt from zombie survival. If this was going to be a military group forming up to put down the zombies then bring on the ammo and spray them down, but this is survival. So I think some of the ideas for the Fallout OP coming in April will help us see how the limited ammo works out.

[dave OC-6]

ok not bad.
how about if when hit in the chest / head only the zomby must lay down and then get up, thats about 30 - 40 sec with gear on.

[caliban]

I remember in the Walking Dead game we played, the 5 foot "Infection" call worked out. I'm still iffy about adrenaline fueled contact.

[Deleted]

For what its worth we ran an "Infected" zombie-ish game at our last game. It turned out pretty well and everyone came away laughing and having fun. This was with 10 players.
1. An infected person started off against 9 non-infected. The infected then chased and attempted to get within 20ft of his prey. Once within the 20ft safety zone the prey became infected.
2. Once infected the player would go to our gear zone and drop off their weapons. This made them lighter and less restricted to chase down their prey.
3. Non-infected players would fend off the zombies by shooting them beyond the 20ft safety zone making the infected pause for 5-10 seconds and turn and go a different direction.

The goal was to be the last non-infected alive. It was great fun that allows for swarming but at a distance and keeps the integrity of airsoft without the blend of foam weapons.

[Fox]

actually using maybe a hybrid of that idea might work. If we take the safety kill rule and turn it into the zombies kill box, have the zombies go down for about 30 seconds so the humans fill like they are killing the zombies instead of herding them. That would bring in the swarm idea as the more zombies that come around you the smaller your safe zone becomes so zombies can over run a person.

I also like the gear collection and drop off point for the zombies who are turned. That can act as the incubation period for the virus to form fully into the person that has died. Plus it will let anyone who is now a zombie time to hydrate and get a small rest before they start going after people. That may add that sense of just let the zombies take me because I'll get a chance to rest for a time and not worry about being attacked.

I know Risk is this coming week, but maybe the week following, in between the challenge games, we can maybe run a test skirmish with some of these rules and see how they play out. Use people we know will follow the rules to the letter and then if that works, the following week we could bring in some of the younger players to add a more viable test. Like I said I was planning on this taking several tests before we get it down.

[Redkangavoosa]

I think the incentive for people to sign up as zombies, would be to let the zombies sign up at a discounted price.

BUT we can also do what they did for "The Crazies" scenario Houston Airsoft did, everybody starts off in different groups, and a small group of people are infected from the beggining and secretly start spreading the contagion.

[Fox]

This Saturday during lunch I would like to take a few people aside and look at distances and talk about possible ideas face to face. This thread is great for storing information but sometimes you just need to physically talk with other people to make a brainstorming session work well.

The more I research the subject online the more I see there seems to be an annual zombie airsoft game held in Wisconsin called Operation Plague. I'm going to see if I can look at their site and maybe talk with some of the people that were in it or run it to see what they do for safety and to keep things interesting.

[dave OC-6]

we will have a short meeting durring lunch about this sat.

[caliban]

Feb 29, 2012 13:50:42 GMT -5 Redkangavoosa said:

I think the incentive for people to sign up as zombies, would be to let the zombies sign up at a discounted price.

BUT we can also do what they did for "The Crazies" scenario Houston Airsoft did, everybody starts off in different groups, and a small group of people are infected from the beggining and secretly start spreading the contagion.

Or if you have people that sign up as strictly zombies, then a special swag for them.

Our Walking Dead game had "secret infected" at the start of the game. It really did make you jumpy and leary of everyone!

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Yea, like you could make (lets say there is about 40 people) make 8 start off pure infected (picked random out of all players) and 2 that are infected but dont turn zombies till 1 minute into the game (to signal we could have dave honk the truck horn or blow the whistle) also if you had like a 20ft safety zone then no need for swarm would be needed ( just run at them and weave because they are shooting) but to cancel the need for such a large distance, only guns that can be used are ( spring pistols, spring rifles, cheap electric AEG's all under 300fps) full face mask would be required and the plate idea could work. Ammo would be VERY scarce (about 1 mid for AEG's and 3mid for spring pistols and 1 mid for rifles) Objectives would be needed (get to the truck, hold the town, save a specific person, get gas cans to truck to get out on, ect...) If you are zombie you have a plate to show what you are (zombies look like people so no tape needed, just gotta be smart because FF should be on) people would be classed 5 max for military who have AEG's and the police force 5 max get pistols with 3 mids along with shottys, civis get spring rifle or pistol with one mag. Any ideas of those work?

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Also, 28 days later zombies would be perfect, they would have unlimited lives but when shot fall down and count to (idk) 30 then go again, this video would be a good idea www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoMePNni_k&feature=related also if the zombies were walkers then it would be INSANELY unfair to people because some guys like me could just sprint away to the other side of the field or just go around the mass of zombies since the field is so open. The zombies could start at the warehouse then proceed from there and the town would be were civis and half the police force starts while military holds hedges and the other police hold the left side of the hedges. The civis goal could be to get gas from maybe the warehouse to the town where a truck will be placed where they can fill the truck full (just act like your putting in gas) then they would gas up and drive out, the truck has a 20ft auto kill if zombies come near when survivors are driving out. Also zombies should be able to just like petty slap (barely slap) then the survivor would fall to the ground sit for 30 seconds, get up and place gear at a certain spot where others would place gear, the proceed with carnage. Uniforms for military can be any MATCHING BDU while police can wear any police/swat uniform and of course civi can wear anything.

[Fox]

The purpose of the walker zombie, as George Romero so well showed is that you can run all you want but eventually you will get tired, and the zombie is still coming for you. You can dash off to the far end of the field towards the objective, but the zombie is still coming for you. The point of a walker is a slow always coming pace were you have to always remember there still coming for you.

Fast zombie are all well and good but the idea of the fast zombie was brought about because people just forgot what the mindless masses of slow zombies could really do, and they started giving the heroes better skills and abilities meaning they had to up the zombies too. The slow zombie is also relevant to having a large number of people so you look out and know you can't kill them all and even if you run they will get to you eventually.

I do think we can get into weapon restrictions and all that extra flavor but the first priority is to figure out the main zombie rules. If we can't lock down a safe and fun way to have the zombies move around, get shot, and still be effective then all other ideas go out the window. As for marking zombies that's easy, a white blood covered neck wrap to make them easy to spot. There cheap to make and easy to store in an admin's pouch so they can always give them out were needed.

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Just think if they were walkers, I would run, stop rest and keep going, you could make only like a few special infected (run and more health.) and the rest jog/walk.

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

also dave, since my friends and I want to be in Umbrella Corp uniforms you think you could get us something like this fc03.deviantart.net/fs5/i/2006/348/c/8/Umbrella_Corp_is_here_to_help_by_Leshii203.jpg . i think my friends just Want the black pants and jacket along with a black helmet maybe and i think gas mask. I got patches covered along with knee + elbow pads and they may want boots. Also a black mask like they have that covers the back of your head but leaves your face and eyes + nose open for the gmask.

[dave OC-6]

helmet 25.00 new
new black BDU set 60.00
boots 10 if bought with uniform
i would use a black mesh mask if i were you, skip the gas mask. if you paint it it looks cool.

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Well we were gonna get mask to complete our uniform because thats what almost all Umbrella soldiers wear but would only use them for occasions because they will break if shot, though if we got a skimask with the top eye part open we could buy goggles from you and have the helmet on top.

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Or if you could get our helmet, mask, and tinted black goggles that would be awesome. fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/003/9/b/stock_soldier_12___mask_and_shotgun_by_freeport-d4l6fc1.jpg

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

So, for the black BDU, black boots, black helmet, black tinted goggles, black face/skimask, what price are we looking at, also how much is a gas mask. We saw some in your store and they looked awesome and are what we are looking for just like in the picture on my link.

[Fox]

Well from Dave's earlier estimates that he gave I would say about 100 would get you just about everything your looking for minus the gas mask. Just remember the gas mask will limit your peripheral vision which could mean a zombie can come up beside you without you knowing, ask Wraven I'm sure he has the same issues with his mask when he wears it, I know mine does that.

I do see what your saying about being able to run and rest and keep running, but what about the rest of your team? In a zombie survival situation you win by working together and watching each others backs, the lone wolf is the first to go down when swarmed by a group of zombie he didn't see as he runs into them. It all well and good though, and if we can get the mechanic down I'm sure we can shift it and augmented for different variations on the game. We could have a slow zombie game and a fast zombie game, one with special zombies and some with just a large massive horde and only like six or seven survivors. Once we get this right the sky will be the limit on the types of extra game we can do.

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Sounds great man, we just wanted to look EXACTLY if not close to the actual umbrella guys. Ive worn a gas mask before and it really effects the sides of view by alot. And yes man zombie gametypes would be awesome.

[dave OC-6]

big thing about gas masks, many of the eye parts are glass.

the ones i have are for real use and are 100.00 or more ea with filters

i will check my importer to get some that are MUCH cheaper.

[theplague]

I have a few humble suggestions my self, a few I will get to in another post. But first I would like to mainly suggest that we keep all the weapons in the cqb category. Pistols , shotguns and smgs only. With severely limited ammo. I know this has already been mentioned but how exactly to do it has not. My suggestion is that we make a bunch 25-50 rnd bags of ammo and scatter them among the field. (If diff weight of bb is needed we can mark bags accordingly for example .20 blue bag .25 red bag) I played a game like this with a bunch of my friends back home and It was awesome. We had Zombie to Human ratio 8-1! Hella Fun We played it at night to so it was way more intense!

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Yea, if you could get the gas mask MUCH cheaper that would be awesome, we would want some mostly for props, so like a fake filter or used then the mask itself, maybe 50$ would be a awesome amount probably if you could find some for that much or cheaper.

[Fox]

That is actually a nice idea Plague, that does add to the scavenging and survival aspect of the game and those players who find it have to decide to be greedy or be charitable to their team. Yes 350 FPS and lower I think would be necessary for all guns to be fielded as people will likely end up getting close, as the more I think about the normal 20 foot rule that is a long distance to suddenly have a zombie say they got you. Again on Saturday we will look at distances and some other small variables.

Another way to approach the low ammo part is to add a small amount of RP to the game and have a non-combatant drive up with stuff to sell during the game and people have to trade in cans of food or other nonperishable items they bring that then would be donated to the local food shelter of good-will or something.

[Fox]

So as I said in the Risk thread, I will be unable to attend the Saturday game so will miss the little meeting over the zombie stuff. With that I would like someone to put down any significant information talked about in this thread so we can have it for future refeernce and so i can see what you all talked about.

Also I have some tests I would like to have a few people try during lunch if they are feeling up to it and please consult Dave with any results or variables you wish to try.

1. Check the practical distance for the normal inside 20 foot safety kill mark for zombie kill. Check 10 feet as well.
2. Have someone set at 50 feet run full out at someone while there back is turned. At different distances have the person turn around and fire a dry gas pistol shot to confirm the shot and see how close the person gets. This will help us determine how safe and viable running zombies can be.
3. Do test 2 but with five people as zombie walking at moderate pace towards a person. Again have there back turned and have them turn around at different distances to engage the zombies. Stagger the people in different ways to see how effective a mass of slow moving zombies can be.

[Tyrus (T-virus)]

Also if we want to maybe make the Zombielab game a scenario based one we could, 1. Have my friends and I along with whoever else wants to be in full black i guess be trying to cover the whole thing up (like umbrella did in Raccoon city) by taking the gas the people need for the truck, killing all the zombies and military/police officials and get out High profile targets. So there would be like the normal good guys, bad guys (us), and the zombies. That sound like a decent idea? (max of 12 umbrella forces so there would be two teams of 6, one would try to sabotage the truck and the other getting the high profile target out.

[Deleted]

Wullf, as I stated earlier we ran a zombie/ infected game here in B/CS. We had both slow and fast infected. Someone running at a dead sprint can easily get someone 50ft away with the 20 foot safety kill. At ten feet, basically 3 meters, your getting pretty close and its not fun to get shot that close. Also we found that the closer the infected get the more natural to aim higher it feels. Since most of us really dont like getting shot close, and even less in the head 20 feet was a good distance.